Second Doubt Message with Ron

So Gang any thoughts on what we discussed on Sunday night?

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Permalink Reply by Alida Jansen on December 9, 2009 at 10:27am

I have been doing a lot of thinking about Doubt. The one thing that clicked on Sunday is that a term like "doubt" is often used in a variety of contexts...that "doubt" could mean very different things.

So we have intellectual-level doubt. This is very real to me, because of the work I do and the things I'm exposed to at work. For example, we have emerged ourselves in Evolutionary Psychology at work (so Robert Wright vs Steven Pinker's view of who we are, where we have come from and where we are going). At work, I struggle to marry this (very academic) view of religion and "God" with what I know - that God exists, He is real and I have a personal relationship with Him.

But I can leave the intellectual doubt at work. To me, it's not important to spend time trying to figure out how Robert Wright's view of God aligns with mine - because poverty is too "in my face" to forget that God wants us to emerge ourselves in the world around us (here and now, with all its brokenness) more than He wants us to think about His existence in academic ways.

Yet sometimes, when I see the poverty and suffering around me, I experience intense doubt. This is a very different kind of doubt - it's doubt about God's work in the world around me. Why does God not give them their daily bread, even though we have been praying that prayer for so many centuries? What if they die in poverty and misery, without having ever tasted the grace of God?

To me, this doubt is also "okay" (ish), as long as I am involved in a community in some way. I have discovered that God is working in poor communities in very special and profound ways. And I have realised that I will only see this if I actually take the leap of faith and become involved. So when we choose to walk a bit closer to someone in need (no matter how ugly or uncomfortable their situation is) God opens our eyes to see how powerfully He is involved in individuals' lives... This doesn't take away the doubt entirely, but it certainly helps to become involved.

The other type of doubt is (undoubtedly) a very practical kind of doubt about Gods work in MY life. It's not about them, it's about me - and rightfully so. Does He see my life, do I matter, why does He not answer my prayers? We probably all go through this kind of doubt at some stage in our lives. This doubt is probably the most difficult to deal with, since it has a massive impact on our ability to make the contribution that God asks us to make, and requires us to recognise doubt as "creative tension" which will move us forward. This is the part where a nuanced, complexity-embracing, fascination-based journey in God is needed. What you said on Sunday, helped me "click" at that level. We can no longer settle for the simple food - God wants us to go deeper into this journey of "faith" and recognise Him as a God of non-linear complexity... and taste the grace that flows richly out onto our lives from that (very deep) well.

So Sunday helped me see two things: 1) there are different kinds of doubt. And when someone says they are experiencing doubt in their walk with God, it's important for us to understand which kind of doubt they are talking about... since that allows us to meet them exactly where they are, and journey with them in a more meaningful way. And 2) when doubt sets in at a very personal level, it moves us deeper into God's grace, so that we can live off solid foods and be reminded that we can never quite have God "all figured out"...

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Ron Martoia on December 9, 2009 at 5:12pm

Wow Alida, thank you so much for your reflection, heart, probing and synthesis. Winsome! You are catching something epic here for your journey that is obvious to me. A couple things are worthy to highlight. First, the various areas of doubt impact us different. You are right about Wright. We don't have to debate the merits or demerits of his evolutionary theory...though for the record I think some of his stuff is worthy of a few long nights of small group conversations and lots of red wine.

Second, personal doubt can derail or drive us deeper. Your observations about complexity, non linearity and grace in the midst of that sort of chaos is simply key. Alida let me encourage your willingness to live into that dissonance inside of you and try to do the hard work of reflection and synthesis. It isn't easy, comfortable or fun most of the time. It takes a willingness to embrace the vertigo to figure out at more fundamental levels what is IT that is making me feel this way. I am glad the conversation Sunday helped fund that exploration.

Third, how we help other through doubt IS person specific and depends on the "brand/type" of doubt. You are spot on and we need to continue the conversations about that as well.

Thanks Alida for the window into your world. The sort of growth you are articulating here makes all this worth it, tech difficulties and all!

Peace

Alida Jansen said:

I have been doing a lot of thinking about Doubt. The one thing that clicked on Sunday is that a term like "doubt" is often used in a variety of contexts...that "doubt" could mean very different things.

So we have intellectual-level doubt. This is very real to me, because of the work I do and the things I'm exposed to at work. For example, we have emerged ourselves in Evolutionary Psychology at work (so Robert Wright vs Steven Pinker's view of who we are, where we have come from and where we are going). At work, I struggle to marry this (very academic) view of religion and "God" with what I know - that God exists, He is real and I have a personal relationship with Him.

But I can leave the intellectual doubt at work. To me, it's not important to spend time trying to figure out how Robert Wright's view of God aligns with mine - because poverty is too "in my face" to forget that God wants us to emerge ourselves in the world around us (here and now, with all its brokenness) more than He wants us to think about His existence in academic ways.

Yet sometimes, when I see the poverty and suffering around me, I experience intense doubt. This is a very different kind of doubt - it's doubt about God's work in the world around me. Why does God not give them their daily bread, even though we have been praying that prayer for so many centuries? What if they die in poverty and misery, without having ever tasted the grace of God?

To me, this doubt is also "okay" (ish), as long as I am involved in a community in some way. I have discovered that God is working in poor communities in very special and profound ways. And I have realised that I will only see this if I actually take the leap of faith and become involved. So when we choose to walk a bit closer to someone in need (no matter how ugly or uncomfortable their situation is) God opens our eyes to see how powerfully He is involved in individuals' lives... This doesn't take away the doubt entirely, but it certainly helps to become involved.

The other type of doubt is (undoubtedly) a very practical kind of doubt about Gods work in MY life. It's not about them, it's about me - and rightfully so. Does He see my life, do I matter, why does He not answer my prayers? We probably all go through this kind of doubt at some stage in our lives. This doubt is probably the most difficult to deal with, since it has a massive impact on our ability to make the contribution that God asks us to make, and requires us to recognise doubt as "creative tension" which will move us forward. This is the part where a nuanced, complexity-embracing, fascination-based journey in God is needed. What you said on Sunday, helped me "click" at that level. We can no longer settle for the simple food - God wants us to go deeper into this journey of "faith" and recognise Him as a God of non-linear complexity... and taste the grace that flows richly out onto our lives from that (very deep) well.

So Sunday helped me see two things: 1) there are different kinds of doubt. And when someone says they are experiencing doubt in their walk with God, it's important for us to understand which kind of doubt they are talking about... since that allows us to meet them exactly where they are, and journey with them in a more meaningful way. And 2) when doubt sets in at a very personal level, it moves us deeper into God's grace, so that we can live off solid foods and be reminded that we can never quite have God "all figured out"...